The former Roma defender talks about himself: “I see myself in Mancini, he’s tough and knows how to set things up. Am I racist? Anyone who knows me knows that’s not true. Capello was tough, Zeman looked beyond, Lucescu was a master of life.”

In Rome, they called him the Terminator because he wasn’t one to shy away from confrontation on the pitch, quite the contrary. But Antonio Carlos Zago was much more than just a “tough” defender. He played five seasons in the capital and was a key player in winning the 2001 Scudetto, also making 37 appearances for the Seleçao. He then had a career around the world in Turkey, Japan, Spain, and Brazil before becoming a coach. Zago has recently returned to Rome before heading back to São Paulo. But with a promise: “I’ll come back to Italy as soon as I can, it’s my second home.”

It’s been 25 years since the last championship. Could this be the right time for the fourth?

“Every year I hope it will be the right time, it’s been too long. But I think it’s right to dream this year. Now Gasperini has to stay at the top until December, then with two or three reinforcements, the goal is within reach, also because I don’t see a clear leader in the league. It’s all very even.”

When did his Roma realize that the time was right to win?

“When Batistuta arrived, we knew that something was changing. Perhaps the comeback victory against Parma in the first half of the season was the turning point, but in reality, even before the start of the championship, we felt we could do something great. Samuel and Emerson had also arrived, Totti was constantly improving, and there were champions like Aldair, Cafu, Candela, and Montella. And then there was that ugly episode…“

Which one?

”Eh, Lazio’s Scudetto the year before. We hadn’t gotten over it, we wanted to put a smile back on our fans’ faces right away. That gave us an extra push.”

Twenty-six years on, can you tell us what happened with Simeone in the derby?

“He was provoking and picking on Marcos Assunçao. I naturally always ran to defend my teammates, a fight broke out, and I did something that was out of character for me. I know that the fans still remember that spit as a fond memory, but for me it’s not like that.“

Do you regret it?

”Absolutely, it was a bad move. At the time I said: I’d do it again, but today that’s not the case, even if instinct sometimes leads you to do things you don’t want to do. It’s happened to me other times, but those who know me know what kind of person I am.“

Are you referring to the racism accusation in Brazil in 2006?

”At that moment, I was beside myself, I didn’t think about what I was saying. I apologized several times, imagine if I were racist. My best friends are Aldair, Cafu, and Cesar Sampaio.”

You were instinctive but also had an uncommon ability to set up plays for a defender. Do you see that in any players today?

“I’m seeing that kind of growth in Mancini. He has the right attitude and also knows how to play the ball very well. I hope he can continue to grow, because as well as being a good defender, he can become a great captain for Roma.”

There were many champions in that Serie A season. Which one made you the angriest?

“I made them angrier than they made me. The hardest to mark was definitely Ronaldo, ‘Il Fenomeno’. I still have nightmares about that 4-5 defeat at the Olimpico. He was unstoppable. Another player who caused us a lot of concern was Shevchenko. But we had someone just as strong. I’m talking about Totti, of course.“

By the way, is it true that he talked in his sleep and kept you awake?

”Unfortunately, it’s true! When I arrived in my first year, they put me in a room with him, which was an honor for me. I accepted immediately, of course. But at night he snored and talked loudly. Once he shouted, ‘Pass me the ball, pass me the ball’. I went over to calm him down and slowly he went back to sleep. But I couldn’t sleep and I wanted to rest, so I asked to change rooms. From the following year, Totti slept alone.”

Regrets?

“None at Roma, really. I couldn’t wait to be in Trigoria, we were a magnificent group. We also saw each other for dinner, birthdays, vacations. With Brazil, definitely not winning the World Cup. In 1994, I injured my face, four fractures to my cheekbone, and I lost my chance. In 1998, Zagallo decided not to call me up, while in 2002 I lost my dad and went through a difficult time.”

Five years at Roma, then you traveled the world. Why did you never stay in one place for long?

“Actually, I wanted to play for Roma for the rest of my life. There was never a place in the world where I felt as comfortable as I did there. Unfortunately, in 2002, they decided not to renew my contract. I never understood why. Then I learned about many cultures. Japanese culture is a source of learning for the organization they have in everything.”

Zeman, Capello, and Lucescu. Can you give us an adjective for each of them?

“Zeman was someone who knew how to look beyond. I’ve never seen anyone coach the offensive phase like he did. Capello was tough, but he also knew how to manage a group with strong individual personalities. Lucescu is a master. I worked with him for two years at Shakhtar. The young players who arrived, especially from Brazil, feared him at first, but in addition to teaching them soccer, he taught them how to live. All, and I mean all, of the players he coached still send him messages today and call him if they have problems.”

You have coached many teams, including a national team like Bolivia. Is it easier to be a player or a coach?

“There’s no comparison, it’s better to be a player. As a coach, you have to manage 25 people, each with their own character, their own pace, their own way of playing on the field. Every time, you have to find the right key, sometimes you succeed, sometimes you don’t.”

Ancelotti is now at the helm of Brazil. Is he the right man for the job?

“He’s the best coach in the world. I’m convinced that with him, Brazil will win the World Cup. I don’t know if it will be the next one or the one in 2030, but no one can do it better than him. The Seleçao is going through a crisis, as is Italy, which must qualify for the World Cup at all costs.”

Do you have any doubts after the loss to Norway?

“What surprises me as a former defender and fan of Italy is the inability to protect the result. The Azzurri have been famous for this for decades, I don’t understand what has changed. It’s not a lack of talent but a change in mentality.”